Audacity Bug Summary
••• Introduction •••
••• Keywords •••
    Audacity 3.0.3 development began 19th April 2021

Audacity Bugzilla



Bug 208 - Some effects (including equalization effects) delete Envelope Control Points, or do not move them when timeline changes
Some effects (including equalization effects) delete Envelope Control Points,...
Status: RESOLVED FIXED
Product: Audacity
Classification: Unclassified
Component: Built-in FX
unspecified
PC All
: P1 RepeatableAll
Assigned To: Default Assignee for New Bugs
http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/fo...
:
Depends on:
Blocks:
  Show dependency treegraph
 
Reported: 2010-08-18 19:33 UTC by Steve Daulton
Modified: 2021-02-26 13:19 UTC (History)
7 users (show)

See Also:
Steps To Reproduce:
1. Create an envelope. 2. Use ONE of these effects: a. Change Speed/Pitch/Tempo b. An EQ effect (see bug 1686) c. Noise Removal d. Nyquist Prompt e. Sliding Time Scale/Pitch Shift Envelope points are deleted.
Release Note:
GROUP:Effects and Analysis * The following effects '''remove envelope control points''': ** Change Speed/Pitch/Tempo; Equalization; Graphic EQ; Filter Curve; Noise Removal; Sliding Time Scale/Pitch Shift; any Nyquist effect in the Effect menu. ** The Reverse effect retains the control points, but does not move (reverse) them.
First Git SHA:
Group: Envelope
Workaround:
Use Tracks > Mix and Render to apply the envelope to the waveform before applying the effect.
Closed: 2020-08-18 00:00:00
petersampsonaudacity: Test‑OK‑Win+
petersampsonaudacity: Test‑OK‑Mac+
stevethefiddle: Test‑OK‑Lin+


Attachments

Note You need to log in before you can comment on or make changes to this bug.
Description Steve Daulton 2010-08-18 19:33:26 UTC
In most cases, effects that are applied to tracks that have volume envelopes, the effect is applied to the audio data with no reference to or affect on the volume envelope - the envelope is simply applied "on top" of whatever audio data is in the track.

However in the case of:

Noise Removal
Sliding Time Scale/Pitch Shift
Tremolo
Equalizer
Change Speed/Pitch/Tempo
and all Nyquist effects

these effects replace the existing track contents, thus wiping out any envelope points.
Comment 1 Gale Andrews 2010-08-19 06:03:49 UTC
A) Now tested the remaining effects I hadn't, so this seems to be the definitive list of built-in effects to which the bug applies:
 
Change Speed/Pitch/Tempo
Equalization
Noise Removal
Nyquist Prompt 
Sliding Time Scale/Pitch Shift

Plus Nyquist process effects are affected, but VST, LADSPA and VAMP plug-ins are not affected (on basis of those tested).  

B) I've added here a related bug that not all effects that change the timeline move the control points, which is almost as bad as deleting them. So Change Speed/Tempo and tempo change in Time Scale/Pitch shift should move the control points. Reverse should move them (Repeat and Truncate Silence already do). To the extent that Change Pitch modifies length due to its algorithm, possibly that should move points too?    

Obviously if it is not practicable to fix B) after A), B) would have to be split off to a separate bug.
Comment 2 Steve Daulton 2010-08-19 07:50:21 UTC
(In reply to comment #1)
I'm not sure that, in the case of "Reverse", moving the control points is the most useful behaviour.

The behaviour that I would "expect", from a user point of view, is that Reverse would reverse the audio contents and not the envelope. If I want to reverse the envelope, I would "expect" to need to render the waveform first.

I agree that "not" reversing the control points in the case of Reverse would be inconsistent and so not strictly "logical", but in many cases it may be more useful.


Perhaps what we really need is more control of Envelopes.
If there was the ability to cut and paste Envelope Control Points, then it would make more sense for the Reverse effect to reverse the Control Points as there would be a simple workaround if that behaviour was not what was wanted.

(Copy Envelope / Reverse / Paste Envelope)
Comment 3 Gale Andrews 2011-02-24 00:33:07 UTC
> Extra comment by Steve Aug 19, 2010:  
> What about "Generate"?
> If you generate a tone into a track that contains Envelope Control Points,
> should it replace the track, or just replace the audio in the track?
> I think the logical answer would be to just change the audio content.
> Stereo track have 2 envelopes - one for each channel, so although it may 
> make sense to allow a mono track envelope to be applied to a stereo track, 
> copying a stereo track envelope to a mono track would be more problematic.
I think "replace" is probably better (correctable with pasted envelope points if needed).
Comment 4 Steve Daulton 2011-02-24 07:28:40 UTC
(In reply to comment #3)
If audio and envelope points are conceptually different "layers", I don't see the logic in removing the envelope points if audio is generated or pasted into a track.

Why would a user generate audio into a track that has envelope points unless they wanted to use the envelope points? If they don't want the envelope to apply to the newly generated audio then the logical thing would be to either, not generate audio into that track, or delete the envelope points either before or after generating the audio.

There are potentially "conceptual" problems when considering all of the combinations of cutting, pasting, deleting, generating, splitting and reversing audio with/without control points. Currently I think Audacity sometimes does "the wrong thing" (as in the case of this bug report) and in that sense it is a bug, but I think that resolving the issue will require a reworking of the whole concept of what envelopes are and how they should behave. In which case it's probably better to describe it as a new feature for future development (post 2.0).

Perhaps this bug report should be closed as "can't fix" for now, and the issue transferred to a New Feature Proposal on the wiki. (I thought there were some posts on -devel regarding handling other types of "controller tracks", but I can't find them now).
Comment 5 Gale Andrews 2011-02-24 15:41:53 UTC
(In reply to comment #4)
> Why would a user generate audio into a track that has envelope points
> unless they wanted to use the envelope points?
Well maybe I'm zany but I usually regard "generate" as new audio. If I generate at 0.8 that's what I would want, not to have the amplitude fitted to existing control points. 

I don't think the bug should be "wontfix" as the behaviour that some effects remove control points but not others is unexpected (e.g. Bass Boost retains the control points but EQ removes them). Making behaviour consistent may not necessarily require a rework of envelopes. 

Cut and paste of control points would seem to be handy anyway, but if you look on Wiki Feature Requests there are suggestions at least for an "Effect Track" (http://wiki.audacityteam.org/wiki/Feature_Requests#New.2FModified_other_GUI_elements) and "Panning Envelope". 

I'm fine with a WIki Proposal Page for new control tracks (also considering whether new control tracks and enforcing consistent envelope behaviour would require a rework of envelopes). You could link there to this bug but I don't think it should be closed.
Comment 6 Paul L 2015-01-18 09:10:15 UTC
Confirmed that this still happens with Noise Reduction (the rewrite of Noise Removal)
Comment 7 James Crook 2017-08-11 07:49:10 UTC
*** STEPS UPDATED ***
Comment 8 Peter Sampson 2019-05-08 10:14:01 UTC
Testing on W10 with 2.3.2 RC001

This is still the case - I made minor changes to the bug report
Comment 9 Peter Sampson 2019-08-22 12:18:46 UTC
Tested on W10 with audacity-2.3.3-alpha-326-c9fbd283b7bfc8702caf86a4672cba7ff6260b7d

This has propagated to the new for 2.3.3 Filter Curve  and Graphic EQ (sliders) effects, similarly afflicting them.

Envelope control points werte removed by both new effects
Comment 10 Peter Sampson 2019-09-25 04:28:17 UTC
I think this deserves a P2 (marginal P1) as it potentially irrevocably changes/destroys a users audio data.

This had long-languished as our oldest P3 - it's about time we fixed it.
Comment 11 Peter Sampson 2020-06-15 05:36:40 UTC
Bug #1686 appears to be a duplicate of this bub
Comment 12 Peter Sampson 2020-06-15 05:38:05 UTC
This is out oldest P2 bug by far - and it really is something we should be fixing

See that latest user report on the Forum:
https://forum.audacityteam.org/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=111560
Comment 13 Peter Sampson 2020-06-29 13:16:06 UTC
Upping this to P1 as it can cause users to damage their project data.
Comment 14 James Crook 2020-06-30 06:46:22 UTC
*** STEPS UPDATED ***

Steps updated to be explicit about the affected effects.
Comment 15 Leland Lucius 2020-08-08 20:42:08 UTC
At least I think I got it right... :-)
Comment 16 Leland Lucius 2020-08-08 20:42:56 UTC
https://github.com/audacity/audacity/commit/c13a074
Comment 17 Peter Sampson 2020-08-09 05:42:45 UTC
(In reply to Leland Lucius from comment #16)
>At least I think I got it right... :-)

Looks to me that you got it right Leland   ;-)

Testing on W10 with Audacity 3.0.0 58adb94

I tested with all those effects listed in the steps and none of them remove the envelope.
Comment 18 Peter Sampson 2020-08-09 07:11:10 UTC
(In reply to Leland Lucius from comment #16)

Testing on macOs 10.15.6 Catalina with Audacity 3.0.0 58adb94

I tested with all those effects listed in the steps and none of them remove the envelope.
Comment 19 Steve Daulton 2020-08-18 16:03:29 UTC
Works for me on Linux.